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> Bought a new toy/project, Euro will be proud :-P
jaqattack02
post May 5 2009, 04:41 AM
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Picked up a 1991 Jeep Cherokee this past weekend. 4x4, 4.0L I6 under the hood, with 193k miles on it. Found it on craigslist and picked it up for $400. The engine runs, but something is knocking in it. We thought it might be loose flexplate bolts, but it's not. We're thinking something internal, either a collapsed lifter, or possibly something in the bottom end. The sound goes away as oil pressure increases. I've started looking into new engines though, so we may not even bother with fixing it because of the mileage. It looks like it was in one accident (different colored fenders) and the carfax said it was rear ended about 6 years ago, but we couldn't find any structural evidence of either of them no matter how hard we looked. The interior is in darn good shape for being around 18 years old, and other than a funky door latch and broken cruise control, pretty much everything seems to work. Power windows and locks work. 4 wheel drive seems like it works, but we're gonna look all that over. It has ABS, but it doesn't work. Since this thing will probably end up offroading some, I probably won't even worry about fixing it. If anyone would like to donate to the "Buy Jack an Engine Fund", you can PM me and I'll send you my PayPal address (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Anyway, here's a picture.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/jaqattack02/DSC_0814.jpg)
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PharmEcis
post May 5 2009, 05:34 AM
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Sure the oil level is right? My old jeep would knock when it was a quart low. Put a quart in and the knocking went away.
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jaqattack02
post May 5 2009, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE (PharmEcis @ May 5 2009, 09:34 AM) *
Sure the oil level is right? My old jeep would knock when it was a quart low. Put a quart in and the knocking went away.


No, it's not that. When we got it home it actually had around 3-4 quarts too much oil in it. We drained it and refilled it with new oil.

Here's a video of the noises...
(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/jaqattack02/th_DSCF2918.jpg)


Know of anyone with a Jeep engine they want to get rid of? Preferably with under 100k on it.
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PharmEcis
post May 5 2009, 08:09 AM
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Sounds like rod knock.
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01rt
post May 5 2009, 08:15 AM
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There was one at Scottys house up until a month or so ago.Too bad they sent to to the crusher. He does have an engine laying around. You should come down Sunday, maybe I can get him to sell it to you cheap.
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AllEur0.
post May 5 2009, 08:31 AM
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So you got the wrecked one anyway eh? The other one wasn't a 4.0?

Hey, you have a good starting platform if the unibody isn't seriously tweaked. If anything you can weld in some subframe braces. Plenty of writeups out there for the XJ's, they're pretty much necessary if you upgrade the axles and put on 35's or larger. That might be well down the road for you if at all but it's something to consider.

First thing I'd do after fixing/replacing the motor is rattle can that thing black. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Then get some black steelies and 31's like Dave's XJ and just rock it.

www.jeeps-offroad.com
www.jeepforum.com
www.jeepsunlimited.com

And I suggest lurking a bit here...and sticking to the non-hardcore tech areas. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

www.pirate4x4.com

Look around in there for a donor 4.0, odds are there's plenty to go around.

This post has been edited by AllEur0.: May 5 2009, 08:41 AM
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jaqattack02
post May 5 2009, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (01rt @ May 5 2009, 12:15 PM) *
There was one at Scottys house up until a month or so ago.Too bad they sent to to the crusher. He does have an engine laying around. You should come down Sunday, maybe I can get him to sell it to you cheap.


I might be able to do that. Any idea what year it was? Did it run? High mileage? I'll try to give you a call or something later this week.

QUOTE (AllEur0. @ May 5 2009, 12:31 PM) *
So you got the wrecked one anyway eh? The other one wasn't a 4.0?

Hey, you have a good starting platform if the unibody isn't seriously tweaked. If anything you can weld in some subframe braces. Plenty of writeups out there for the XJ's, they're pretty much necessary if you upgrade the axles and put on 35's or larger. That might be well down the road for you if at all but it's something to consider.

First thing I'd do after fixing/replacing the motor is rattle can that thing black. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) Then get some black steelies and 31's like Dave's XJ and just rock it.


Yeah, we were a little wary of it because it had been hit, but like I said, we couldn't even find any little wrinkles in anything from where it had been wrecked, so it seems like it was just cosmetic damage. I drove thing thing home, and other than some rattles and creaks here and there, and what sounded like something rubbing in the front end, it drove great. Definitely needs some new springs and shocks though. The main reason we went for this one is my brother swore he knew what the problem was, and that it was something we could fix pretty easily. Ended up it wasn't what he thought, and it doesn't seem like it can be fixed easily. That and the 1991 has the HO motor stock, the 1990 doesn't, so swapping in another HO motor isn't as big of a thing. For the moment I'm thinking just a little lift (2-3") and like 31s or something. I've never done much wheeling, so I figure I'll start small and see how it goes. As far as paint, I'm gonna keep an eye out at the junkyard for one I can pull some white fenders off of, but until then I probably will rattle can the red part to black. I don't know about the steelies though, I kind of like those wheels.
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01rt
post May 5 2009, 04:42 PM
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It's probably a 4.0. Don't know. Scotty's messed with a few so he can help ya out I'm sure.
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jaqattack02
post May 5 2009, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE (01rt @ May 5 2009, 08:42 PM) *
It's probably a 4.0. Don't know. Scotty's messed with a few so he can help ya out I'm sure.


That's cool. I'll try to give you a call. Although saturday may be a better day to get together, Sunday being Mothers day and all.
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Stasy
post May 5 2009, 05:11 PM
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I thought that my Jeep sounded bad sometimes. LOL!

I have to give those engineers credit. I've ran the motor down very low on oil (I try to be good, but when you got a month of freezing temps, checking the oil rates low vs getting back inside) and It'll let you know when it's low. But my Jeep still runs pretty damn well for 188 (workin on 189) thousand miles.
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jaqattack02
post May 5 2009, 05:31 PM
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QUOTE (Stasy @ May 5 2009, 09:11 PM) *
I thought that my Jeep sounded bad sometimes. LOL!

I have to give those engineers credit. I've ran the motor down very low on oil (I try to be good, but when you got a month of freezing temps, checking the oil rates low vs getting back inside) and It'll let you know when it's low. But my Jeep still runs pretty damn well for 188 (workin on 189) thousand miles.


Yeah, they're well built motors. They boys at AMC certainly knew what they were doing. We may try to pull the valve cover, and maybe the head too, and see if it's something that can be fixed somewhat easily. I'm not sure yet, mostly because I have feeling it's not going to be a simple fix.

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PharmEcis
post May 5 2009, 05:58 PM
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Pull the pan first and see if there is bearing material in it.
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01rt
post May 6 2009, 04:09 AM
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jaqattack02
post May 29 2009, 05:57 AM
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For anyone interested, I picked up the engine Robert mentioned, and my brother and I swapped them out this past weekend. It runs pretty well now, and no odd noises. We think we narrowed the noise from the old engine to either a cracked flexplate, or the harmonic balancer falling apart, or a combination of the 2, so we're thinking there may not actually be anything wrong with the old engine. I replaced both parts when installing the newer engine. It still needs a little work before being road worthy. The rear springs are shot, and we're going to tear down some of the front axle to repack the bearings and just generally check things over. We looked around at a local junk yard and they had something like 10 Cherokee's sitting around there. Most of them had the Chrysler 8.25 axle in them, so I'll probably go grab one of those at some point since mine came with a Dana 35. We took a bunch of pictures while doing the swap, and I'll see if I can post them sometime soon.

Edit to add: We had to swap the oil pans during the process because the engine I bought had screwed up threads for the drain plug, and during the swap we didn't find and metal bits or anything in the pan for the old engine. All of the rod bearings had pretty much the same amount of play between the 2 engines, so either they are both ok, or they are both screwed up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

This post has been edited by jaqattack02: May 29 2009, 05:58 AM
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AllEur0.
post May 29 2009, 09:45 AM
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The wheel bearings on the front axle aren't rebuildable, they're unitized sealed hubs similar to but larger than those in the stratus. $100 a piece at PartsAmerica.

If you keep the old engine you can build a stroker using your stock piston rods, a mid-80s 4.2 crank, and some custom pistons. Bigger injectors, a cam and you're good to go...porting the head doesn't help much in a 4.0, so machine work is minimal though many prefer a zero deck height in this engine. Look up threads by the user YJ and Corey on Pirate for a few 4.0 stroker builds he's done...his two build threads are for race motors but the information is invaluable, and most of it can be used for a streetable rig. If you're going to really get into 4-wheeling you'll want to either get a really good deal on that 8.25 or hold out for something better, like a ford 9"....much more aftermarket in that axle than an 8.25 corporate and they're cheap. The problem you'll run into most is the available widths are significantly wider than your stock axle. Another option is a Ford 8.8 out of an Explorer...get one with disk brakes and 4.10 gears, then get a 4.10 D30 out of a 4 cylinder TJ (will bolt in), some weld-on spring perches and shock tabs for the 8.8 and you have a very capable trail rig for up to 35" tires.

On second thought about that front axle, I believe yours is a high pinion...so you'd be taking a downgrade by going to a YJ low-pinion front axle...so if you do the 4.10 8.8 you'll want to either find a 4.10 high pinion D30(not common at all) or regear what you have ($500+ in labor, tools required cost more than that)..but going from what I assume to be a stock 3.08:1 or 3.54:1 stock ratio to 4.10:1 would improve offroad performance on 31" to 33" tires greatly...it was one of my most useful changes besides the rear locker.

This post has been edited by AllEur0.: May 29 2009, 10:01 AM
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jaqattack02
post May 29 2009, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (AllEur0. @ May 29 2009, 12:45 PM) *
The wheel bearings on the front axle aren't rebuildable, they're unitized sealed hubs similar to but larger than those in the stratus. $100 a piece at PartsAmerica.

If you keep the old engine you can build a stroker using your stock piston rods, a mid-80s 4.2 crank, and some custom pistons. Bigger injectors, a cam and you're good to go...porting the head doesn't help much in a 4.0, so machine work is minimal though many prefer a zero deck height in this engine. Look up threads by the user YJ and Corey on Pirate for a few 4.0 stroker builds he's done...his two build threads are for race motors but the information is invaluable, and most of it can be used for a streetable rig. If you're going to really get into 4-wheeling you'll want to either get a really good deal on that 8.25 or hold out for something better, like a ford 9"....much more aftermarket in that axle than an 8.25 corporate and they're cheap. The problem you'll run into most is the available widths are significantly wider than your stock axle. Another option is a Ford 8.8 out of an Explorer...get one with disk brakes and 4.10 gears, then get a 4.10 D30 out of a 4 cylinder TJ (will bolt in), some weld-on spring perches and shock tabs for the 8.8 and you have a very capable trail rig for up to 35" tires.

On second thought about that front axle, I believe yours is a high pinion...so you'd be taking a downgrade by going to a YJ low-pinion front axle...so if you do the 4.10 8.8 you'll want to either find a 4.10 high pinion D30(not common at all) or regear what you have ($500+ in labor, tools required cost more than that)..but going from what I assume to be a stock 3.08:1 or 3.54:1 stock ratio to 4.10:1 would improve offroad performance on 31" to 33" tires greatly...it was one of my most useful changes besides the rear locker.


Thanks for the info on the bearings, hopefully that's not what the noise is. If I remember right from the price list, a rear end, minus the brake drums, was something like $100. Mine has the 3.54 or 3.53 gears from what I've read, but I've yet to actually look. I was going to do the 8.25 rear because a: it's a direct bolt in, saving me some time and headache on adapting a different rear to the Jeep, and b: I doubt I'll go above 31s or 32s anytime soon. I've yet to actually go 4 wheeling yet, so for all I know I won't even find it enjoyable. I'll more than likely take it somewhere light and easy as it sits now, with maybe some new tires, to get a feel for things before I go crazy with it. I'm going to get things fixed that need fixing, then drive it a bit, and decide where to go from there. Next time we go out there though, I'll wander through the Ford section and see if they have many Explorers sitting out there, and see if I can get under them and see what rear ends they have.

Edit to add:
Should be the 3.55
QUOTE
What gearing was available?
3.07 - used with 4.0L engine / manual transmission
3.31 - only available on older (pre87?) 2 door XJ's with "Fuel Economy" package
3.55 - used with 4.0L engine / automatic transmission
3.73 - found in some XJ's with the towing package
4.10 - used with 2.5L engine usually, and older XJ's with the "Off-Highway Vehicle" package.


This post has been edited by jaqattack02: May 29 2009, 11:57 AM
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AllEur0.
post May 29 2009, 01:56 PM
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Since you have a leaf spring rear vehicle, any axle with leaf spring mounts that match can be a direct bolt-in. Leaf springs perches are easy to weld on if the axle was originally wider or was coil sprung...just cut off the stock stuff and weld on some new stuff. Check out your local Jeep clubs, there's almost always someone willing to help you out doing minor stuff like that.

You want to find out specifically what your gear ratio is, sometimes mixups or special orders happen, though with the 4.0/auto and dana 35, I'll agree with the 3.55's, which do rather well for 31's but nothing bigger. The 8.25 is likely only behind the tow package jeeps so you're most likely going to find the 3.73's in them.

Eh, lots of options and decades of aftermarket support for these things...take your time and figure out what you want to go with. The D35 is a good enough axle to live with if you stay on 31's and don't lock the axle, so don't feel you need to upgrade right away to do any minor to moderate trail riding. Hell, I still have mine, locked, and I beat the crap out of it. Haven't broken yet.
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jaqattack02
post May 29 2009, 04:12 PM
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QUOTE (AllEur0. @ May 29 2009, 05:56 PM) *
Since you have a leaf spring rear vehicle, any axle with leaf spring mounts that match can be a direct bolt-in. Leaf springs perches are easy to weld on if the axle was originally wider or was coil sprung...just cut off the stock stuff and weld on some new stuff. Check out your local Jeep clubs, there's almost always someone willing to help you out doing minor stuff like that.

You want to find out specifically what your gear ratio is, sometimes mixups or special orders happen, though with the 4.0/auto and dana 35, I'll agree with the 3.55's, which do rather well for 31's but nothing bigger. The 8.25 is likely only behind the tow package jeeps so you're most likely going to find the 3.73's in them.

Eh, lots of options and decades of aftermarket support for these things...take your time and figure out what you want to go with. The D35 is a good enough axle to live with if you stay on 31's and don't lock the axle, so don't feel you need to upgrade right away to do any minor to moderate trail riding. Hell, I still have mine, locked, and I beat the crap out of it. Haven't broken yet.


Is there a way to look at a pumpkin and tell what gears are in it? I'm going back to the junkyard soon to grab a set of decent looking leaf springs, a tow hitch, and a set of V8 ZJ springs (starting a lift kit). I figure while we're there I can check a couple of the 97+ Jeeps out there that have the 8.25 since they are supposed to have the stronger axles in them.
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AllEur0.
post May 29 2009, 08:19 PM
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There should be a tag on the axle that gives the gear ratio and if it's got a limited slip in it or not, but you can't rely on something like that, especially if it's ever had a rear end oil change done...most times the tech just takes that tag off and tosses it...or loses it.

Best way is to count the number of driveshaft rotations required to turn the wheels once. If both wheels turn opposite directions, double the number and know you have an open diff. If they turn in the same direction, use the number you get (3 and a half turns to one wheel turn is a 3.54:1) and you have either a locker or limited slip. If you have this, turn one side while holding the other and see if both turn...if not and the diff ratchets audibly, you have an automatic locker and don't tell the guy at the yard. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

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jaqattack02
post Jul 27 2009, 02:24 PM
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Hopefully this works. I've been uploading the pictures of my progress on the Jeep to Facebook. Weekend before last we swapped in a C8.25 axle out of 2000 Cherokee, along with a different set of rear springs, and it's made quite a difference. Need to get a different driveshaft though. All the one's we found at the yard were dented from forklift they use to move the cars around, so the one I'm using vibrates over like 50 mph. Anyway, here's the link to the pictures, let me know if it doesn't work.
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2278...mp;l=99debecb62
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AllEur0.
post Aug 2 2009, 10:16 AM
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Axle looks good, now lift the sucker! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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jaqattack02
post Aug 2 2009, 05:43 PM
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QUOTE (AllEur0. @ Aug 2 2009, 02:16 PM) *
Axle looks good, now lift the sucker! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)


It's on the list. Right now the idea is a 3.5"-ish lift and 31s. Hopefully sometime this year. I'm thinking probably one of the Rubicon Express kits, just have to get the money together for it.
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dodgeboy
post Aug 13 2009, 08:59 AM
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spun a rod bearing.......
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AllEur0.
post Aug 13 2009, 10:33 AM
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QUOTE (dodgeboy @ Aug 13 2009, 07:59 AM) *
spun a rod bearing.......



Just a bit late to the party eh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Chair.gif)
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jaqattack02
post Aug 13 2009, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE (dodgeboy @ Aug 13 2009, 12:59 PM) *
spun a rod bearing.......



QUOTE (AllEur0. @ Aug 13 2009, 02:33 PM) *
Just a bit late to the party eh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Chair.gif)


Definitely. That engine is rusting away on a scrap pile somewhere now. I couldn't find anyone who wanted to buy it, and I didn't have room to store it, so we grabbed the head off of it and tossed the rest.
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post Aug 14 2009, 02:25 AM
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QUOTE (AllEur0. @ Aug 13 2009, 11:33 AM) *
Just a bit late to the party eh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/Chair.gif)



Yeah I shoulda read the dates of the posts....

Day late Dollar short story of my life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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